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[Proposal] AFK Cloakers nerf solutions (no macro can avoid).

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Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.10 05:26:00 - [1] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 05:37:24 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 05:36:07 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 05:29:00 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 05:27:43 These are 2 simple solutions to resolve the abusing of Cloaking Devices by afk players: 1) All Cloaking Devices NEED a FUEL CHARGE. The fuel is a charge [like Crystal T2] that can not be replaced in space and can works max Xh (4h? 5h? 6h?). 2) All Cloaking Devices are always under "pseudo-OVERLOADING effect". The cloaking device module damage itself and can be operative Xh (4h? 5h? 6h?). The module must be repaired in a station. With these solutions, a AFK cloaker is not able to live indefinitely in enemy territory but can enjoy all the benefits of its role (5h of cloaked operations is enough for a massive alliance attack too). But above all, NO MACRO can avoid the solution and a pg can not log its pg and go shopping all day with no consequences. If you want to be a afk cloaker, you must return every X hours (of total module activity) in an area where you can use fitting tool (solution 1) or Repair Facilitiy (Solution 2) and go back. PS: sorry for my english.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.10 09:13:00 - [2] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 09:17:26 Originally by: ShahFluffers Oh look... it's THIS thread again. No. Cloaking is fine the way it is. AFK cloakers cannot harm you as they are Away From Komputer. At the same time, you live in null-sec and thus should be prepared for any situation that is tossed at you... including a surprise attack. 1. AFK = Away From Keyboard 2. A AFK cloacker is not a playing player.. It's only a form of terrorism (EVE should encourage competition, scam, deception .. but not terrorism). If you wanna be a cloacker you have to play.. if you are AFK you should LOG OFF and let people play! Your answer is just an excuse of safety. 0.0 should not be safe for anyone .. especially for AFK players. I repeat: a AFK player can't be safer than an active player.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.10 14:26:00 - [3] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 14:29:17 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 14:28:16 Originally by: Lady Spank What is the problem with AFK cloaking that you seek to fix? If so many people complain there must be a problem. There is not a problem if a player goes AFK currently using Cloaking Devices. The problem is the instrumental use of AFK Cloaker to create a climate of terror on enemy territory (every day 24h per day) damaging the local economy with a technique that provides immunity to afk pgs. If you wanna be a AFK cloaker, it's ok for me.. but it must be for a limited AFK time.. or have to implicate ACTIVE partecipation of the player. A Player HAS TO BE ACTIVE to damage other Players. So.. or a player has to interact with the cloacked ship constantly in order to interpret the role of "menace in local" or the player can do it AFK for a limited time (6h is good for me). If you wanna continue, you have to go back home and return: it's honest, fair, and it would be much more strategic than this exploit @Anna Lifera: never used macros or played afk. I'm sorry, I PLAY EVE. Your is an excuse to be safe in 0.0 enemy territory sure to be not attacked. Who is the carebear?
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.10 15:16:00 - [4] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 10/08/2011 15:18:03 Just an answer: 0.0 should be safe for nobody, right? So, if you wanna stay AFK and safe.. go back to empire! The rules should apply to everyone. If you don't know how AFK cloacked pg role works, asking me how "terrorize", i'm wasting time
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.10 23:01:00 - [5] Aramis Rosicrux hits the point! Why an AFK player can be safe in 0.0? Cloacking devices nerfing solve this imbalance.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.11 07:11:00 - [6] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 11/08/2011 07:40:33 Originally by: chopper14 I an guilty of AFK cloaking. I do it when I'm ratting for sec status. I do it when I'm at war with a superior force (usually in low sec so they get blown up looking for me). I do it when I want to kill people and need them to lower their gaurd. I do it when people are hanging out where I want to hang out Infact I do it as much as I can. I can understand your whining but if there is a "AFK cloaker in your system just jump to the one next door and carry on if he doesn't follow you, you win if he does then jump sombody back through and drop the biggest freaking bubble on the best interceptor pilot you have. Of course if he follows you he isn't really AFK is he? Like wise you can leave a cloaky combat probe alt behind which will make him think there is a target about and keep him cloaked while your off having fun. Also I don't get why you have the damage mod idea or the needs fuel idea? How many dockable stations do you think there are in null? All you would need to combat afk cloaking is a cycle timer It would last for 15 minuts and start flashing and making noise 20 sec before you decloak if you hit it before the time was up you would stay cloaked for another 15 minutes. AFK clockers would then appear while I would have to pause my Netflix and reset the damn timer. This is the next point. Why you can benefit to stay AFK for a week ready to attack someone when the guard is lower and be safe all the time? Why a AFK pilot can live in enemy territory without the possibility of being expelled? If I have the sovereignty of a system should have the right to hunt (or try to) the enemy. Remember that a AFK pilot is an ALT. Your main pg are playing in other place.. my main pg are waiting your alt. Players Versus Alts. Quote: Also I don't get why you have the damage mod idea or the needs fuel idea? How many dockable stations do you think there are in null? Zero for a pirate. Infact a pirate should go to null sec.. kill those who want to.. and then GO BACK HOME and not live forever in enemy territory.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.11 11:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Dalloway Jones They should just get rid of local. That way you will have no way of knowing the cloaker is even there and it won't freak you out. In null-sec with sovereignty, the owners should have a exlusive intelligence system against intruders. Intruders should not have access to it. This would make sense. I know that saying this, many pirates weep. Null-sec is not anarchy. Null-sec is NO-CONCORD, security driven by players.. and sovereignty should provide the tools to keep itself.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.11 14:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 11/08/2011 14:06:29 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 11/08/2011 14:05:31 Originally by: Marara Kovacs How about cloaking devices have a 'heat' type problem, reduced by skill levels in cloaking. So a prototype cloak will overheat in about 20 minutes and will switch off until cooled (only a minute or two), a T2 claok will ovgerheat in an hour and a cov ops will stay cool for a good few hours, that way the cloaked person can still stay safe when they are playing (even an overheated cloak isnt a problem as you can just warp safe to safe for a few minutes while it cools off, tehn recloak) but it does demand that players actually play the game to cause disruption. I am not against disruption by players, just against any disruption that can be caused while you arnt even actualy playing, or maybe not even home... I agree. This was my solution n¦2. Heat Problem or Charge are 2 simple solution that don't damage Cloacked Ships if played activly (and a macro can't avoid). Those who are against this, has its own dirty interests to be AFK in enemy territory.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.11 20:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Dub Step Cowardice, ignorance and incompetence is the problem, not cloaks. AFK Cloacker are payed to do it and wanna continue to be payed. A nerf ruins this easy way to do money. This is the problem.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.11 22:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Danika Princip people pay AFK cloakers? Since when? I am a witness of a pirate corp paid to stay in Branch, during the War of Northern Coalition. The purpose was to be AFK 24h/day (sometimes attack capital ship opening a cyno for a Titan or normal ships with Marauders) to prevent the activities of mining and block the production of ships and weapons. The pirates themselves inform us of their purpose and the fact that they were paid. AFK cloacker is a subdole job commissioned by enemy alliance to reduce, obstruct and block the production chain.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.12 08:59:00 - [11] Originally by: chopper14 Back home? 0.0 is far more hospitable to a pirate then low sec! I think you have to read better. I wrote to go back home after a pirate mission in null-sec. Login -> travel in null sec -> stai cloaked waiting your victim -> kill -> reapet -> after X hour go back in low sec to recharge your cloaking device module -> travel in null sec again. I do not think to ask for a modification that kills piracy. Originally by: Omara Otawan So they did attack while AFK? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I am very sorry for your limits.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.12 18:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Originally by: Dub Step Cowardice, ignorance and incompetence is the problem, not cloaks. AFK Cloacker are payed to do it and wanna continue to be payed. A nerf ruins this easy way to do money. This is the problem. One example, does not a rule make. Your problem is local, but I can see you know that as you are avoiding me like the plague. No local = no null-sec empires = empty 0.0 = pirate own goal I don't think alliances can handle Massive Industry production in 0.0 without local.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.13 12:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 13/08/2011 12:09:40 Originally by: Mag's You have the 100%, risk free, instant local intel tool and AFK cloakers are trying to subvert that tool. But it relies upon you to be effective, as an AFK cloaker cannot make you do anything. False. AFK Cloackers collet a lot of intel information without being able to prevent (intel is very important during alliance wars) and have the ability to attack like a clock bomb. We are not naive.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.14 11:13:00 - [14] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 14/08/2011 11:15:18 Originally by: Mag's "What exploit" song You begin to get boring. We understand that for you is not an exploit The CCP will change the local .. but knowing it, I'm sure it will be in favor of alliances and sovereignty .. and not of pirates.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.14 12:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Mag's Any chance you could answer the questions I asked, in post 72? I have already explained my reasons for a fix that does not change the game of real pirates but avoid espionage and psychological terrorism. I don't want to go off-topic. It would be a fruitless discussion.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.14 17:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Kyr Evotorin It is quite comical though... So... let us take a look... òCloaky guy enters the system of enemy. òPeople notify in intel channels of this guy's existence. Possibility 1: òAfter X amount of time, people likely start ratting in the system because they believe the Risk vs. reward is a good one (assumptions of the cloaky being afk). òCloaky unveils himself onto a ratter. òStanding fleet pew pews. Possibility 2: òMiner starts mining. òCloaky unveils himself. òStanding fleet pewpew. So sure, I hate cloaky AFKers, but look at the facts... The only way a single person could be a threat is if you have no tank and he kills you before the standing fleet can react. amiright? The problem on the AFK end and how they can be safe while you are not safe... Technically they are not safe. For those who will want an explanation: they CAN be uncloaked while sitting afk in your system. counter argument? they could be anywhere? awwwh, too bad. If you don't want to take the time to find him (I don't think anyone would EVER), that's your choice. You allow him to be safe by not searching for him. (Yes, I understand this is weak, but it is true) Aside from that one technicality, they generally are safe. I keep thinking, that's not fair that they can AFK and be safe. I keep wishing I could agree with you guys that want this changed (not fixed because CCP hasn't declared it broken afaik), but I look at the grand scheme of null and see that the problem is players who play alone. I see this because I play alone most of the time, and AFK cloakers used to be the reason I never undocked. AFK cloakies provide very little fear to me now. The same cloaky has been in one of my other toon's systems for almost 3 weeks now, I've been mining since day 2 of his arrival. The last comment here made me think of this. before that comment on how the tools are available in game to stave off this... issue, I was erring on the side of option #1, but really, why would CCP put work into an issue that is not logical? Sorry guys, I'm a carebear and... you are wrong. :) thanks. JOIN standing fleets. DON'T undock untanked. LOG IN to your alliance/corp's chat client. Risk vs. Reward. Win at Eve. (Eve is a game of logic, stop being emotional, it gets you keeled.) I like your answer. But the intel data that a cloaked pilot could collect without be hunted is unfair anyway.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.15 09:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Dub Step Originally by: OMGWTFResearch Those suggestions belong in another thread. Not one about the AFK Cloak exploit. Also note CCP plans for Winter 2011. More changes than possible Cloak changes will come ya know. It's possible they will give us flower picking and wild snakes. You are becoming very boring and not very constructive in the discussion. We already know that you are opposed. Constantly seek to be right is useless. We would also hear the opinions and suggestions from other players rather than doing call and response with you.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.15 11:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Danika Princip Originally by: Alx Warlord Make a T2 probe that can detect cloaked ships, also make it realy weak that it would take a couple of minutes to have a 100% lock. or make the cloaking device reduce the signature of the ship to have this effect, also greatly increases the probing time. so you would be able to take down the afk cloakers and keep the active cloakers moving. Now cloaking devices are almost completely useless. Can I have the SP I spent on recons, bombers and blockade runners back please? Picture this (real scenario). I'm hauling a ton of stuff around in my viator. I jump into a system with a large red gatecamp on the gate I want to use, as shown by my dscan from a safe off grid from the gate. I sit there cloaked up and go to make a sandwich, watch a movie, play a better game etc and wait for them to leave. Why is this an exploit? With these magical probes, they'd find me and kill me just as fast as they would if I was flying an itty V, so there's no point in ever flying my blockade runner again. Why is this a good thing? I'm sorry but this thread talk about fuel and charges on cloaking devices with 4-6h of autonomy. "Magical Probes" are on an other thread. Anyway if you move your ship cloacked and be ACTIVE in game, they can't find you with probes too.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.15 12:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Kaelie Onren Originally by: Cynoska McNamara Originally by: Danika Princip Originally by: Alx Warlord Make a T2 probe that can detect cloaked ships, also make it realy weak that it would take a couple of minutes to have a 100% lock. or make the cloaking device reduce the signature of the ship to have this effect, also greatly increases the probing time. so you would be able to take down the afk cloakers and keep the active cloakers moving. Now cloaking devices are almost completely useless. Can I have the SP I spent on recons, bombers and blockade runners back please? Picture this (real scenario). I'm hauling a ton of stuff around in my viator. I jump into a system with a large red gatecamp on the gate I want to use, as shown by my dscan from a safe off grid from the gate. I sit there cloaked up and go to make a sandwich, watch a movie, play a better game etc and wait for them to leave. Why is this an exploit? With these magical probes, they'd find me and kill me just as fast as they would if I was flying an itty V, so there's no point in ever flying my blockade runner again. Why is this a good thing? I'm sorry but this thread talk about fuel and charges on cloaking devices with 4-6h of autonomy. "Magical Probes" are on an other thread. Anyway if you move your ship cloacked and be ACTIVE in game, they can't find you with probes too. But that is easily defeated with macros. Anyway, are you a supporter of the other proposal where the game would pop up with a "Are you still there? please click OK if you are, otherwise you will be logged off in 10 min" if you have not clicked on a key in X amount of time? Just wondering. macros can't defeat it.. 1) the charge should be fittable only with fitting tool (POS, Station) 2) a ship can store only 4-6h of fuel What macro can work here? Macro instead can press the OK button every X minutes (a simple Mouse click on X,Y coordinate every X minutes)
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Kaelie Onren Please read again. (sorry if your native language is not english) My point on the "macro can defeat this" statement was against your statement: Quote: Anyway if you move your ship cloacked and be ACTIVE in game, they can't find you with probes too. In that I meant that any mechanic that tried to detect if you are ACTIVE in the game can be defeated by macros. Anyway, I think we misunderstood each other. You're right. I misunderstood. I understand that the fuel or charges can be a nuisance.. I live in a 0.0 system where a pirate with 5 account stay online 24/7 with cloacked stealth bombers attacking randomly weak ships or destroying drones with bombs. He stay AFK all time e sometimes attack us. We can't change system because we pay a rent for that system only. For now he has not destroyed any vessel.. we are stronger e well organized, but this harassment is very annoying because we can never find its position. And even if we destroy his ship, he would return more bitter than before. It is probably a crazy sick player because 0 kill in 2 months. What is the line between RPG and harassment? We only ask a tool or a fix to counter this type of behavior. Ask is a right, even if the CCP answer is NO.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Mag's But that's not enough for you, because you also want to be able to decloak him. I'm so sorry but I don't want decloak nobody. I ask for a solution that force a cloaked pilot to PLAY and don't sit in system 24/7 cloacked. Macro can avoid AFK on/off implementation so I thinked something that a macro can't handle. ACTIVE PLAYER will be safe as now. But ok.. CCP will never change cloack devices. I've tried. CCP says local is being changed. Are you sure that will be something like WH systems? I hope (and think) will be more sovereignty oriented.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:55:00 - [22] Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 16/08/2011 17:00:00 Edited by: Cynoska McNamara on 16/08/2011 16:58:37 Originally by: Mag's Please stop being dishonest. Of course you want to decloak them, that's why you've set a time limit for the cloak in both your ideas. 6h charge / fuel / Overload damage is sufficient for any mission in covert ops (8h is the same for me). Do not ruin anything. Also I'm not dishonest, because I don't decloak a ship.. but a distracted cloaker decloak itself.
Cynoska McNamara	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Dub Step How about they just log out players that are idle for a couple of hours or more. nag boxes telling you someone is probing out out is a really stupid suggestion. Not that I care and AFK cloaking is only a problem because players are risk averse cowards and can't operate in 0.0 unless they feel they have complete immunity. The pirate says "coward" to the miner ... like the spider says "coward" to fly .. facepalm

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